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	<title>Comments on: Blogchat with John Marshall, CEO Clicktracks</title>
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	<link>http://www.foviance.com/what-we-think/blogchat-with-john-marshall/</link>
	<description>Foviance is a ground-breaking customer experience consultancy, providing usability consulting services, web analytics, user experience and accessibility consultancy in London, UK.</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Roche</title>
		<link>http://www.foviance.com/what-we-think/blogchat-with-john-marshall/comment-page-1/#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Roche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.applied-insights.co.uk/news/2006/10/04/blogchat-with-john-marshall-ceo-clicktracks/#comment-265</guid>
		<description>&quot;Once you accept that Google would never artificially manipulate the Adwords auction system&quot; - GA-experts

Quality scores now &quot;artificially&quot; modify minimum bids.

Being a Google fan is great.  But it would be very simple for Google to modify their ToS for GA to prohibit them from using the data collected in any way to influence AdWords ad ranking, cost, or other attribute.  And they have not.

The only smart position is to be judicious.  If your company relies significantly on Google for revenue, then it will be sensitive to adword cost.  Google may never use the GA data, but if you don&#039;t provide it, they definitely will not use it.

There are plenty of good, not particularly expensive alternatives.

If you are not sensitive to keyword pricing - bloggers, etc. then the decision can be made solely on the merits of the product and cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Once you accept that Google would never artificially manipulate the Adwords auction system&#8221; &#8211; GA-experts</p>
<p>Quality scores now &#8220;artificially&#8221; modify minimum bids.</p>
<p>Being a Google fan is great.  But it would be very simple for Google to modify their ToS for GA to prohibit them from using the data collected in any way to influence AdWords ad ranking, cost, or other attribute.  And they have not.</p>
<p>The only smart position is to be judicious.  If your company relies significantly on Google for revenue, then it will be sensitive to adword cost.  Google may never use the GA data, but if you don&#8217;t provide it, they definitely will not use it.</p>
<p>There are plenty of good, not particularly expensive alternatives.</p>
<p>If you are not sensitive to keyword pricing &#8211; bloggers, etc. then the decision can be made solely on the merits of the product and cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Mason</title>
		<link>http://www.foviance.com/what-we-think/blogchat-with-john-marshall/comment-page-1/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.applied-insights.co.uk/news/2006/10/04/blogchat-with-john-marshall-ceo-clicktracks/#comment-264</guid>
		<description>I have posted some thoughts on this issue of data privacy in my latest article on ClickZ. You can check it out here:

http://clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3623700</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have posted some thoughts on this issue of data privacy in my latest article on ClickZ. You can check it out here:</p>
<p><a href="http://clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3623700" rel="nofollow">http://clickz.com/showPage.html?page=3623700</a></p>
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		<title>By: Avinash Kaushik</title>
		<link>http://www.foviance.com/what-we-think/blogchat-with-john-marshall/comment-page-1/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>Avinash Kaushik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.applied-insights.co.uk/news/2006/10/04/blogchat-with-john-marshall-ceo-clicktracks/#comment-263</guid>
		<description>Jim: My personal hypothesis is that Data Privacy, and its precept ion in the eyes of companies and customers, is one of the greatest threats to any web analytics vendor. It was the first thing I talked about recently in this post on my blog:

Five ?Ecosystem</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim: My personal hypothesis is that Data Privacy, and its precept ion in the eyes of companies and customers, is one of the greatest threats to any web analytics vendor. It was the first thing I talked about recently in this post on my blog:</p>
<p>Five ?Ecosystem</p>
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		<title>By: GA Experts</title>
		<link>http://www.foviance.com/what-we-think/blogchat-with-john-marshall/comment-page-1/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>GA Experts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.applied-insights.co.uk/news/2006/10/04/blogchat-with-john-marshall-ceo-clicktracks/#comment-262</guid>
		<description>I wanted to respond to the following statement from John on privacy wrt Google Analytics:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The other thing that&#039;s been interesting is the data privacy issue. We thought that customers would not be aware of the fact that in return for Google doing all of this stuff for free with your data, that Google is going to get your visitor behaviour data. We thought that customers initially wouldn&#039;t be aware of that, but they are. There is some legitimate concern over the issue. So we did particularly well out of that. With our product, you can get the software, or you can get it as an ASP, and because we offer the software, we&#039;ve got a really good answer to the data privacy issue. Not only do we promise that we&#039;re not going to expose your data, we&#039;re actually make it impossible for us to expose your data. You own the software, you own the servers, you collect the data, it&#039;s yours, we don&#039;t ever see it.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Firstly, to clarify my position, Omega Digital Media do not speak on behalf of Google but we are an official Google Partner and Authorised Consultant for Google Analytics. As consultants we have worked in the SEM/web analytics industry for 9 years and have 3+ years experience with Urchin, now known as Google Analytics.

With that out of the way, here are my comments:

Simply saying Clicktracks have a software version does not address the issue of privacy concerns. BTW, Google also have a software web analytics program - Urchin. However privacy concerns come in two flavours a) The privacy of company web data collected on behalf of the web analytics vendor (Clicktracks, Google Analytics, WebTrends etc) and b) the privacy of individuals who use the Internet to search and find information.

For anyone that has worked with Google, it is patently evident that Google takes both cases extremely seriously. In fact it&#039;s built into their products from the ground up, rather than treated as an add-on as most companies do. An important example of this in practise is the fact that Google do not track individual visitors - all tracking and reporting is aggregated and even using GA to collect personal identifying information is against Google&#039;s Terms of Service (http://www.google.com/analytics/tos.html).
Google also ensure privacy policies are relevant to all users around the globe, where as most US companies only consider their home market. This is particularly important when you consider (from Nielsen/Netratings reports), that the US only makes up ~30-40% of all Internet traffic.

A couple of truths about GA:
Google never pass Google collected data to any third party - whether it is GA or any other product.
Google staff do not have access to Google Analytics reports - contact them and ask for an opinion on a specific piece of GA data. The first thing they have to do is ask you to provide them login access. Its a pain for them - slowing down the support process, but that&#039;s how its done. User access is completely in the hands of the client. Of course support engineers have raw data access for maintenance updates etc. but that&#039;s separate and does not include viewing reports.
Once you accept that Google would never artificially manipulate the Adwords auction system (you do except that don&#039;t you John?), you have to ask &#039;what is the benefit to Google of knowing client conversion rates?&#039;. Basically there is none. Of course it is interesting information - but so is watching lava lamps! In my opinion there is no strategic value to Google beyond encouraging GA clients to measure and optimise their web sites around it.

And that&#039;s why Google made it free - to encourage clients to measure and optimise their web sites/SEM campaigns so they become more active with SEM. It&#039;s not a trade off, it&#039;s common sense and is why Microsoft have followed suite.
___________________________________
GA-Experts
Google Analytics Authorised Consultants
http://www.ga-experts.co.uk/?utm_id=9</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to respond to the following statement from John on privacy wrt Google Analytics:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;The other thing that&#8217;s been interesting is the data privacy issue. We thought that customers would not be aware of the fact that in return for Google doing all of this stuff for free with your data, that Google is going to get your visitor behaviour data. We thought that customers initially wouldn&#8217;t be aware of that, but they are. There is some legitimate concern over the issue. So we did particularly well out of that. With our product, you can get the software, or you can get it as an ASP, and because we offer the software, we&#8217;ve got a really good answer to the data privacy issue. Not only do we promise that we&#8217;re not going to expose your data, we&#8217;re actually make it impossible for us to expose your data. You own the software, you own the servers, you collect the data, it&#8217;s yours, we don&#8217;t ever see it.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Firstly, to clarify my position, Omega Digital Media do not speak on behalf of Google but we are an official Google Partner and Authorised Consultant for Google Analytics. As consultants we have worked in the SEM/web analytics industry for 9 years and have 3+ years experience with Urchin, now known as Google Analytics.</p>
<p>With that out of the way, here are my comments:</p>
<p>Simply saying Clicktracks have a software version does not address the issue of privacy concerns. BTW, Google also have a software web analytics program &#8211; Urchin. However privacy concerns come in two flavours a) The privacy of company web data collected on behalf of the web analytics vendor (Clicktracks, Google Analytics, WebTrends etc) and b) the privacy of individuals who use the Internet to search and find information.</p>
<p>For anyone that has worked with Google, it is patently evident that Google takes both cases extremely seriously. In fact it&#8217;s built into their products from the ground up, rather than treated as an add-on as most companies do. An important example of this in practise is the fact that Google do not track individual visitors &#8211; all tracking and reporting is aggregated and even using GA to collect personal identifying information is against Google&#8217;s Terms of Service (<a href="http://www.google.com/analytics/tos.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/analytics/tos.html</a>).<br />
Google also ensure privacy policies are relevant to all users around the globe, where as most US companies only consider their home market. This is particularly important when you consider (from Nielsen/Netratings reports), that the US only makes up ~30-40% of all Internet traffic.</p>
<p>A couple of truths about GA:<br />
Google never pass Google collected data to any third party &#8211; whether it is GA or any other product.<br />
Google staff do not have access to Google Analytics reports &#8211; contact them and ask for an opinion on a specific piece of GA data. The first thing they have to do is ask you to provide them login access. Its a pain for them &#8211; slowing down the support process, but that&#8217;s how its done. User access is completely in the hands of the client. Of course support engineers have raw data access for maintenance updates etc. but that&#8217;s separate and does not include viewing reports.<br />
Once you accept that Google would never artificially manipulate the Adwords auction system (you do except that don&#8217;t you John?), you have to ask &#8216;what is the benefit to Google of knowing client conversion rates?&#8217;. Basically there is none. Of course it is interesting information &#8211; but so is watching lava lamps! In my opinion there is no strategic value to Google beyond encouraging GA clients to measure and optimise their web sites around it.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s why Google made it free &#8211; to encourage clients to measure and optimise their web sites/SEM campaigns so they become more active with SEM. It&#8217;s not a trade off, it&#8217;s common sense and is why Microsoft have followed suite.<br />
___________________________________<br />
GA-Experts<br />
Google Analytics Authorised Consultants<br />
<a href="http://www.ga-experts.co.uk/?utm_id=9" rel="nofollow">http://www.ga-experts.co.uk/?utm_id=9</a></p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Waisberg</title>
		<link>http://www.foviance.com/what-we-think/blogchat-with-john-marshall/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Waisberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.applied-insights.co.uk/news/2006/10/04/blogchat-with-john-marshall-ceo-clicktracks/#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Very insightful! Really enjoyed reading it. Here are a few comments (in order of appearance, not of importance):

1. &quot;With our product, you can get the software, or you can get it as an ASP, and because we offer the software, we?ve got a really good answer to the data privacy issue.&quot; I really disagree with this solution for the problem. My company is looking into an ASP solution for several reasons, and not offering a proof of data security (like Omniture does very professionally) may signify loosing us. Just saying &quot;look, we offer software&quot; does not solve our ASP problem.

2. &quot;I ask myself sometimes ?Am I selling a car or am selling a mode of transportation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very insightful! Really enjoyed reading it. Here are a few comments (in order of appearance, not of importance):</p>
<p>1. &#8220;With our product, you can get the software, or you can get it as an ASP, and because we offer the software, we?ve got a really good answer to the data privacy issue.&#8221; I really disagree with this solution for the problem. My company is looking into an ASP solution for several reasons, and not offering a proof of data security (like Omniture does very professionally) may signify loosing us. Just saying &#8220;look, we offer software&#8221; does not solve our ASP problem.</p>
<p>2. &#8220;I ask myself sometimes ?Am I selling a car or am selling a mode of transportation?</p>
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		<title>By: Avinash Kaushik</title>
		<link>http://www.foviance.com/what-we-think/blogchat-with-john-marshall/comment-page-1/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>Avinash Kaushik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 04:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.applied-insights.co.uk/news/2006/10/04/blogchat-with-john-marshall-ceo-clicktracks/#comment-260</guid>
		<description>Neil: Great interview, very good questions. The answers are of course classic John!

One of the problems with being a Net Promoter of ClickTracks (and I am a Net Promoter) is that one feels like that lone, if some what slightly smart, voice in the wilderness. We wish that John would start wearing black turtlenecks and torn jeans like Mr. Jobs and brainwash people into buying anything they make, like Mr. Jobs does! :)

Thanks again,

Avinash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil: Great interview, very good questions. The answers are of course classic John!</p>
<p>One of the problems with being a Net Promoter of ClickTracks (and I am a Net Promoter) is that one feels like that lone, if some what slightly smart, voice in the wilderness. We wish that John would start wearing black turtlenecks and torn jeans like Mr. Jobs and brainwash people into buying anything they make, like Mr. Jobs does! <img src='http://www.foviance.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks again,</p>
<p>Avinash.</p>
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